Brick walls and bags of rocks

Warning - LONG post!

Have you ever felt like banging your head against a brick wall? Have you ever actually done it - figuratively speaking that is - so hard and so often that the blood is pouring down your face….and the person you are disagreeing with just says ‘What wall?’

I’ve been watching a thread over on Ebanned for a couple of weeks now, entitled ‘Is Panty Trust Really Worth It?’:

I’m thinking of signing up for Panty Trust, and I was curious if it’s really worth signing up for it. It does cost $40, after all!

I appreciate your replies, especially if you’re a member. Have any of you noticed an increase in sales, etc.?

Thanks!

Various members said they thought it was unnecessary right through to it being a scam and they are so much better off being verified by Ebanned.

Then ‘At17′ a buyer posted

For what it’s worth from a salty old buyer. I really don’t know about the benefits to sellers but as a buyer I absolutely will not buy from anyone that isn’t a panty trust member. I’ve been buying for years direct and from auctions and have luckily been burned only twice and both times from sellers with good feedback. One time I just had to suck it up but the other time since the seller’s ad said she was a panty trust member I contacted them. I got back a very nice reply and explanation of their dispute policy and they took the seller’s page down immediately. I ended up getting an apology and complete refund from them for my loss. I tend to buy high end so obviously I feel much better knowing I have somewhere to go if there is a problem.

I figure the $40 bucks goes into the kitty for refunds. They also say something about photohosting and other goodies for the members. Their service is pretty prominent in the search engines so a permanent big ad there can’t hurt sellers either I would think.

A fairly comprehensive opinion from a buyer isn’t it? Buyers opinions matter right? Wrong - not on Ebanned, not with a couple of sellers over there.

Only buying from Panty Trust chics?

Definitely your loss.

And $40? I can only speak for myself - but the main reason I sell is because I have to supplement my income. If not for dirty panties, I would not have the roof over my head and food on the table. I certainly can’t afford $40 for something other than my own bills.

Hell anyone can hold up a sign and post it on their ME page saying they’re real. Verification? That comes with the feedback you build up over time by sticking around and doing the right things.

Edited because I could go on and on and I dont really feel like it.

This seller has definitely missed the point of Panty Trust, not only that there is absolutely no understanding of the buyer’s, any buyers’, point if view.

At17’s response:

Remember, I not claiming to speak for the majority of buyers, I have no idea on that. I also have no opinion on whether someone should join or not. Like I said, just my opinion on the service from my experience with them.
I don’t ask sellers about it, if I see a seller I’m interested in but don’t see them listed there, I just move on. My thing has nothing to do with them holding up a sign, it is that I know I have somewhere to turn if I have a problem with the seller.

Then there are some more views from other members and At17 bless him, tries again.

Saw an opportunity where my experience with the service in question might help so I piped up. I figured a buyers point of view might be relevant . I’m crawling back under my rock now cause I don’t think people actually got what I wrote. I couldn’t care less about the verification bit because I’ve been around long enough to easily spot the fakes. All I’m saying is the place has saved me once as a buyer by reimbursing me when I got hosed. So yes, even a panty trust girl can hose you but the difference here is that when it happened I lost nothing. My only loss was when I bought from a girl who had plenty of feedback who wasn’t a member. I was out my money with no recourse. Money doesn’t grow on trees for most of us buyers either, we work for it too. I’m sure there are thousands of very honest sellers that aren’t members. For me it very simply comes down to this - If I am plunking down a 100 bucks or more can you seriously fault me for playing it safe? I mean they’ll reimburse me if I get screwed by one of their members how could I go wrong?!

One seller, Ruby, did understand the buyer’s point of view, but good grief, nobody else did

At17…I’ve never heard of such exclusivity before, and I’m glad to hear your opinions. It definitely works in your favor to have that site on your side. I agree, spending any amount of money and knowing you’re “insured” is a good incentive to stick with that program. And it seems there is a wide enough variety there to find many things to your liking.

…it’s from a seller standpoint of it not being worth it to me…for reasons already stated by others. and that is what the original poster asked, if it was really worth it. To the buyers, it would seem that it is.

Then the original poster, aquariusvirgin:

Ah… well I have enough issues with paypal as an ebay seller, so I think I am going to avoid a service that sounds like it favors the buyer first and foremost.

If a buyer has a concern and writes me, I will do everything possible short of giving them something free to try and rectify the situation.

However, I Don’t need an arbitrary arbitrator favoring the buyer every time.

If you have those kind of trust issues with most panty sellers then perhaps you shouldn’t even be buying online.

A common rip-off tactic used against ebay sellers is to pay with paypal, receive the item and then claim item is not as described. As a seller, it’s impossible to dispute this because what are you going to do– bring the item and a copy of the description and get it notarized as to its perfect accuracy?

LOL.

Thankfully, I stopped selling certain items that had a high rate of that and I’ve been good so far, but a good feedback record is the best indication of honesty that I know of.

Ebay? Paypal? What? At17:

Ruby and Lynn, thank you

Aquarius, I give up. LOL How you could come up with the idea that they always favor buyers from my story is astoundingly baffling. I was ripped off plain and simple. Unfortunately, it happens to many buyers. As far as not being able to trust most sellers, the good news for me is because of my buying practices I don’t have to.

I’ll be under that rock…

A seller, simplysensual, chimes in with:

For 40 bucks I would bet there would be plenty of interested verifiers available right here. If anyone would like for me to give them a written statement and a little logo they can place on their auction, I would probably do it for less. Oh, and return the panty. lol What a scam. Successful yes but still a scam. If you the buyer wants that protection of your money back you need to make sure you buy from a minority of sellers who actually offer it on there. Seems to me you are missing out on quite a bit of fun.

At this point I decided to join in the fun, particularly because I was mentioned by Gemma who pointed out that she sent her panties to a seller to be verified.

Hi girls, I haven’t posted here before so please excuse me butting in without having introduced myself before, although a couple of you know me from Panty Hog. *waves at Gemma and Molly*

My name is Anna, I’m based in the UK, have been selling for nearly 2 years now and am also the European contact for Panty Trust. This means that any seller outside of the US and Canada sends their panties to me to be matched up with the verification pic that they send to Bill in the US. US and Canadian sellers send direct to Bill. I look after the rest of the world because of snail mail which speeds up the entire process - for the benefit of the seller, not because I have a fetish for sniffing other girls panties lol. The panties are never removed from their bags and they are destroyed unless the seller wants them back.

Bill set up Panty Trust because he was a buyer who was fed up of being scammed. So instead of moaning about it he decided to try and do something to help protect other buyers as well as provide some benefits for sellers.

I won’t list the benefits for sellers here because Panty Trust lists and explains all the benefits quite adequately should anyone take the time to read it themselves. I personally have seen an increase in sales after verification, and a good deal of my traffic comes from my Panty Trust page, but more importantly it is clear to potential buyers that I have made an effort to think about and understand their concerns. The best benefit in my opinion is that you don’t get hassled by timewasters who ‘just want one sample pic to prove that I am really a girl’. My PT page and seal proves all of that.

Panty Trust may not work for established sellers who auction on here and other auction sites because of your feedback system but a lot of sellers are very glad of the Panty Trust seal on their independent sites as we all know that there are plenty of scammers and con merchants out there. Getting verified is a very positive step in differentiating ourselves from the money-grabbing fly-by-nights that set up fake sites and dip gussets in tuna juice.

You may not need Panty Trust, who, incidentally do not always come down on the buyer’s side, they are neutral, and you may not see the benefits, possibly because you are already established or simply not taken the time to research them, but that does not make Bill a conman or Panty Trust a scam.

$40 is a lot of money, of course it is, but it is only the price of ONE pair of panties that you may have just sold to a seller who ONLY deals with PT verified sellers, and believe me when I say there are a lot of those buyers out there.

PT isn’t about siding with buyers, collecting free panties, and scamming sellers, it’s about a place where buyers can go to choose sellers who have proved that they care about their understandable fears and concerns.

You may not need Panty Trust but that doesn’t mean it is okay to slag it off. Anyone who says it is a scam is just showing a woeful lack of knowledge, an incredible amount of ignorance, and more importantly a lack of respect to potential buyers who have been ripped off, scammed and conned and are therefore understandably wary about parting with more of their cash.

Anyone who can’t see the positive effect that Panty Trust is trying to promote in our panty fetish wouldn’t be welcome by Panty Trust anyway. I have seen a lot of disrespect to buyers on this thread.

Panty selling isn’t about making as much cash as possible, it’s about finding honest people who share our fetish with us.

Anna

Can I just ask one sincere question?

If the bag with the panty is never opened, how do you know that it’s not just another panty dipped in tuna juice to begin with? I’m really not trying to be a bitch, but if the whole system to ensure that it’s not a fake, how would you be able to do that without inspecting the panty firsthand?

Just curious…

Another seller asks:

Yeap, my thoughts exactly, you know some guy or gal has to look at them and sniff them lol ..and of course have a panty fetish or the smell they don’t mind or if it’s never opened and they never smell them, then fakes could slide on in really easy…JMO.

Being Panty Trust verified isn’t about someone sniffing your panties and ensuring they are ‘real’.

It’s about a seller posing for a pic whilst wearing the panties, the panties are sent to me, the pic is sent to Bill who then sends it to me. I confirm that the panties I have received are the same panties in the pic. In other words the ’seller’ isn’t some hairy arsed bloke who has bought some stock pics off the net, created a female profile and is then trying to scam buyers into thinking they are buying the panties that belong to the hot chick in in the photos.

Being PT verified means that the seller really does exist and she is sending out panties, panties that she has worn, and the verification photos are of her. Obviously if the rest of the pics look nothing like the verification pic then there is something dodgy going on and she’ll be busted.

Hope that answers your question

Anna

Hi that does answer my questions somewhat ..but let’s say some girl is real and so is her panties etc, but she just put them on and pulled them back off after the photo..Technically isn’t this not a scammer?

Sure but bad reviews and no repeat business means she won’t last long. If a seller was really that way inclined she could wear her verification panties, we sniff them, give her the go ahead and she does that anyway!

If a buyer receives panties that are clearly rubbish ie no scent or a bit fishy then he can complain to Panty Trust. Panty Trust will mediate between seller and buyer until a compromise can be reached. Usually a seller is happy to send out a replacement pair anyway, a good seller is, a bad seller usually ignores her emails from the seller and PT. If this happens the buyer is compensated and the seller is kicked off Panty Trust and her seal is revoked.

The verification process isn’t fool proof. If a scammer wants to scam they will find a way around it. The consensus of opinion is that the scammer just won’t bother.

Anna

Okay, you answered my question. So you verify that it’s an actual woman then, it’s not whether or not they actually “wear” the panties. Sounds fair enough. Maybe I’ll rethink my position and get verified.

Hurray, somebody understood me. A couple of sellers did get it, and they went and read Panty Trust’s site. Some didn’t bother and carried on with the false assumption that it was just a scam.

i could find plenty of photos online and then go out and buy a panty so similar you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. a white cotton panty is a white cotton panty. so how do you know someone cant or won’t do that because we have had some pretty good fakers here.

and

i was just thinking that

I lost patience at that point:

FFS people!!! Have any of you actually SEEN Panty Trust’s site before finding ‘fault’???

The official verification pic is of a WOMAN holding up a SIGN that says PANTY TRUST VERIFIED, with the panties, or other article of clothing clearly on display.

Is that CLEAR ENOUGH?

and got this!

well i guess we are now huh lol. nothing to get upset about this is just a discussion and we are all entitled to ask questions and make statements. its nothing against you so dont take it so personal!

Me:

Er … I’m not I just find it odd that you can’t seem to read plain English. *shrugs*

I then get this from a seller who insists on looking for the scam in Panty Trust.

LadyAnna,

I’m a pretty bright girl (and I’m not just saying that– my professors and employers agree with me), and your system doesn’t make sense.

Firstly, many panties look very similar and anyone could probably match a panty to a random photo. Wouldn’t a phone call with the seller be better? A seller like myself, who has many, many photos up and a good feedback record is just as verified as a panty trust member if all you’re doing is just confirming the photo matches the panties. I mean, if I were some creepy guy, where would I be getting all these photos and the matching panties and from the same girl to boot? It would take A LOT of work to keep that charade up!

Also, the worn panties rule makes absolutely no sense.

Anna, I think perhaps you shouldn’t have mentioned that you don’t smell the panties, because now the rest of us are even more wary of what’s going on over there.

The entire process makes very little sense and I tend to agree with the others that something else is going on over there. Quite frankly, I think that your statement of not even opening the worn panties is total BS.

Your “verification fee” is also huge– $40 is a lot of money, and when you count in shipping and the money I could have made by selling those worn panties, we’re up over $100. That’s a lot of dough! I’m here to make some extra cash for schoolbooks and random bills and hopefully have fun doing it. Not to get rich quick or make a living. In fact, I get emails all the time asking me why I don’t just list fewer auctions and charge more, and it’s really because I enjoy interacting with the different buyers and because I like to share the love with as many nice guys as possible.

It’s a shame for the rest of us that you’ve branded yourself successfully to the point that some buyers won’t buy from someone who isn’t verified. I suppose it’s a good business model for you, but it’s ultimately detrimental to buyers because they’re missing out and of course sellers who don’t want to “big brother” up their auctions. It’s a bit like getting antibiotics for the flu. It doesn’t make any difference unless you have a tertiary bacterial infection and is actually detrimental to your immune system, but we expect treatment when we go to the doctor and he or she usually gives in wanting to make the customer happy, but it ends up ultimately costing everyone in terms of disease resistance and the ultimate failure of time-honored and formerly effective treatments.

Finally, I don’t disrespect my bidders at all. I don’t judge them and I like to make them happy. However, on the obverse side of things, I’ve noticed a nasty attitude from some bidders. They’re definitely in the minority, but some buyers seem to think they can treat me badly because I’m selling my panties online. I’ve been selling on ebay for over a decade (started very young), and I never got this vibe when I was selling other, non-adult stuff. These unpleasant buyers act like they don’t trust me at all and expect to be ripped off. Sometimes it’s also almost as if they think I’m cheap or easily manipulated because I’m sort of involved with the “sex industry.” Now the prevailing stereotype about girls who are involved with the adult industry may be that of the abused, naive victim, but that doesn’t fit at all with me, in any way. It may cost me feedback, but I’m not the kind of girl who placates a guy who is rude to me, period.

So respect is a two-way street. Sometimes things may get lost in the mail and sometimes I may have finals and be slow to ship (I warn you ahead of time, lol), but I have never ripped anyone off and am doing way too well on here to want to rip a few people off, make a little bit of money and then not have the good seller record I’ve been building for months. Now that’s Bad Business.

Hi aquariusvirgin

I’ll try to answer your response point by point, and I’ll try not to miss anything out.

Yes, many panties do look similar but if you look at the sellers who are verified on PT’s pages you will see that all of the panties are very different so matching them up is extremely easy, there has never been a problem there.

A seller like yourself with lots of pics and lots of feedback is as verified as a PT member - I do agree with you there and if you are lucky to be in that situation then there is no need to join up with PT. But, what if you are a new seller on the block, with no feedback? Being verified increases the likelihood that a seller will give you a chance.

About your creepy guy - exactly! - it would be a hard charade to keep up. That is why scammers don’t get PT verified. That’s why PT members aren’t scammers. That’s why buyers have faith in PT. I’m at a loss to know how to make this concept clearer.

What worn panties rule? You’ve lost me there.

Ok-kay… so you were wary because you thought PT was a panty sniffer on a good scam, now you’re wary because I’ve told you that I don’t sniff the panties….

You think I’m talking BS? I’m telling you the truth. I can’t make you believe me. You don’t have to believe me…but please do not accuse me of tallking BS *shrugs* Exactly what would my motivation be? I will at this point let you know though that I volunteer my services…for free…because I do believe in the concept of Panty Trust. I’m also a pretty bright girl

$100! You’re kidding me right? Your panties are worth what… a few dollars to buy from the store? Then your verification fee, then your postage costs. You can’t then add what you could get if you sold them to a buyer lol. Your panties are worth precisely what you paid for them to YOU, not what a buyer might pay. You’re talking approx $55 to get verified. For that you get an announcement of your verified status on Panty Hog, you get your own page on PT. PT is on page 1 for ‘used panties’ on Google, so is Panty Hog. You get auction templates if you want them. You get free hosting for your adult pics. This is all very valuable stuff to new sellers, or sellers who want to expand their business. That is a good return on $55, especially because you would now appeal to the buyers who ONLY buy from PT sellers.

Buyers buy from PT sellers because they are sick of being ripped off. PT are not saying that unverified sellers are con-artists, they are just telling buyers that if they do have a problem PT is there to mediate or if all fails refund them. Nobody can tell the buyers who to buy from.

Nasty buyers - yep, we all know they are out there. I’ve had the same attitude as well. But what I don’t get is the buyers who want a ’sample pic to prove I’m genuine’ or ’some sample panties to prove I’m real’ - those sorts get politely re-directed to my PT page with ‘I DON’T need to prove myself’ in nice bold type. Experienced sellers like yourself will know that it’s all BS and you’ll have your methods of dealing with those timewasters and freebie hunters …but new sellers don’t know, they haven’t gained the experience yet and they get their fingers burnt too. If they are verified then they can politely send these guys to their PT page as well.

I’m not accusing you of ripping anybody off, I haven’t said anything that could be misconstrued as that. I’m sure you are a brilliant business woman, as I’m sure that many more of you are on here and everywhere else but the sad fact is, you know and I know that there are rip-off merchants out there who don’t give a toss about the buyers. The buyers know this too. But how do they buyers know what sort of seller we are? A lot of sellers are independent, they have their own sites, they don’t have the benefit of a feedback system like on here. PT isn’t for everybody, but some sellers are very, very glad it is there.

With PT the seller is actually NOT in a position where she has to prove her innocence. Regarding a buyer who says he hasn’t received the panties or they aren’t smelly enough…tell me what you do yourself? Do you call him a liar, or do you send a replacement but keep an eye on him and never send a replacement again? If he does it again, you refuse a replacement and you never let him buy from you again. I know you do it here on Ebanned because I have read the advice given on here. There is no difference with PT. (by the way, when I say you I don’t mean you personally aquariusvirgin, I mean you all as sellers generally, mostly). I do exactly the same thing myself but I have found most buyers to be extremely honest.

If you run your business in that way then why would one of your buyers need to go to PT? This is my point, and the whole point of PT - good sellers have nothing to fear. Rubbish sellers should be worried. Rubbish sellers and scammers don’t tend to bother getting verified. That does not mean that all sellers who aren’t verified are rubbish I hasten to add!

If PT get the same complaint from the same buyer when the seller otherwise has a blemish free record who do you think PT will believe - it ain’t going to be the buyer

Sellers have had their seals revoked when a number of buyers say the same thing about that seller. This is usually a seller who sends inferior goods, or renegades on the deal completely and refuses to answer her emails for a considerable amount of time. This has also happened rarely. I can only think of two sellers who had their seals revoked and I’ve been selling for nearly 2 years.

Honest sellers have absolutely nothing to fear. Buyers are happy with honest sellers and we all know that buyers are reasonable people. If you have exams or you are ill or anything, as long as you tell them they are fine, they usually say ‘when you are ready’. They don’t go running off to Panty Trust! They fancy you, they want your panties, they are usually happy to wait. They just want to be informed…not forgotten about.

A recent incident, to give you an example, (this info is in the public domain so I’m not breaking any confidences here) an established buyer ordered a photo set from a very new seller. Two weeks later he is still waiting and being told ‘I’ll do it tonight’ repeatedly, day after day. He gave her another week and then went to PT. PT contacted the seller. The seller had been poorly and had a few personal problems and had been inexperienced enough to fail to be honest and tell the buyer that she wasn’t in a position to do the pics as promised and ask would he like a refund or would he be prepared to wait?’. Once the buyer knew what the situation was then at least he had the choice. He was prepared to wait. The seller learned a lesson on how to deal with her new business and she has kept her seal and her page. Revoking a PT seal is serious stuff and not taken lightly. PT is there to give a seller a kick up the ass if it’s needed.

Do you know something? I have no idea what Bill does with the panties, he might sniff them, he might wear them, he might pull them over his ears and dance the Fandango. Are any of us really worried about what he does with them, as long as we get the service that we have paid for? These panties are worn for as long as it takes to take the pic. I’ve received some unbagged and all I can smell when I pull them out of the packet is washing powder. So unless he’s got a washing powder fetish…..

Who cares?

Well, so far on this thread you’ve heard from one buyer who does care - he only buys from PT verified sellers.

It’s your choice at the end of the day and it’s not up to me to persuade you - and I wouldn’t try anyway - I don’t care if you’re verified or not. The less sellers that are verified is better for me and the already verified sellers to be quite honest.

I’m only here because I couldn’t read anymore nonsense about PT being a glorified scam run by a con-artist who rolls around in all those free panties whilst gleefully counting his ill-gotten ‘fees’ without saying SOMETHING!

At17 again:

OMG I think this thread is played out.

Genuine Girl - honesty and good customer service may mean nothing to you, but it does to us buyers and I find it insulting as a registered member and bidder on ebanned that you feel you have the right to speak for me or the thousands of others here. The auction I won, got taken on, and was completely reimbursed for by panty trust did happen on ebanned.

Anna - logic means nothing to a bag of rocks no matter how “bright” that bag of rock tries to believe it is.

Me, because another thread is running about being verified by Ebanned:

Me again. I’ve been looking at the verification system on Ebanned.

Ebanned - $5 a year and you need a credit card and you need to prove your home address.

Panty Trust - $40 for LIFE - $5 of which will be refunded when you retire. No need for a credit card and we don’t need your home address. A pic of you in your panties is sufficient information to know that you are a living breathing female.

Obviously I’m biased ….but I know which option I would choose.

Aquariusvirgin responds:

At17, There’s no reason to insult my intelligence. You don’t know me, or who I am, so that’s pretty petty.

Honestly, I would have paid the $40 for the pantytrust seal, but after finding out that they mediate disputes, I’m just not interested.

Once burned, twice shy. I am very American. I like my freedom and I want to run my business ethically, and run it My Way, and resolve disputes according to my values and ethics, which has worked out quite well for me and my bidders so far. I’m an adult, and I don’t need someone looking over my shoulder to make sure I’m being a good little girl. I have enough of that at school with tests and exams. So pardon me if I get a little nervous if a third party comes into the marketplace branding itself as the only way to be sure that your seller is providing quality.

Now, you may not have intended that to happen (although if you want to grow your business it’s certainly great for you), but when a buyer such as At starts announcing to the world that he’ll only buy from pantytrust members… well then you see why I’d be a bit piqued.

Also, I read the pantytrust website back in the summer and I recall very clearly that it was implied that you should really Wear the panty. That may have changed since then, and that may have been an unintended implication, but that’s what I got out of it and I wouldn’t have gotten into the first-tier school I’m in without pretty good critical reading skills.

So, if I were to really wear the panty and then ship it to you, I’d be losing out on sending that panty to someone else, which with shipping is about $100 total in cost to sign up for pantytrust.

So nothing personal. I started this thread because I was sincerely considering signing up for pantytrust, and after much consideration and the informative replies everyone has posted, I don’t feel it’s in my best interest.

Hopefully this thread will be a help to future sellers curious about the same question.

AQ

Now this seller, simplysensual is a real cutie pie lol, she addresses At17:

Oh, so now a discussion on PT has turned to spitting insults at sellers on Ebanned. You gave your opinions and now that someone has put up a opinion that disagrees you want to get dirty. What a man.

I did some checking. You haven’t bought anything through Ebanned in years. When you did buy your feedback shows it has only been from three sellers. I have seen numerous post about buyers like you and if they should be trusted with so few feedback. Maybe there is something to that. Do you have anything that says you are not a creep and are a good buyer or do we just go by what you say? At least here with sellers you have an opportunity to see their feedback and know what other buyers thought. You also have an opportunity in most cases to see the individual in the item being offered. Not just one PT pic that shows a panty when they joined. If I were a buyer I would be more inclined to go with a seller that shows more then one view.

Here you hang out for years not buying but I bet getting your wanking on all the auctions and ME pages. Your weiner probably isn’t demanding any verification now is it?

As far as I’m concerned PT can do whatever they want. It would never be something I would have any interest in ever. Especially when they are associated with Panty Hog. As for a new seller needing it. I think not. It seems here that when a seller mentions they are new they get quite a few bids from those that want to check them out. Maybe on Panty Hog sellers need such a boost (or are convinced they do) but fortunently on Ebanned they don’t.

Me:

No, it isn’t Panty Trust vs. Ebanned. I was merely pointing out the differences between a verification service you are happy to join that actually requires more from you than the service you are prepared to believe the worst about.

Plenty of PT girls are Ebanned girls. Plenty of Ebanned girls are pals of mine.

I’ve said it before and I’ll now say it again as clearly as I possibly can.

Panty Trust DO NOT tell you how to run your business.

If you run your business well then Panty Trust won’t have to contact you on a buyer’s behalf.

It isn’t the seller who offers the insurance. It is PT who offers the insurance to the buyer IN CASE he is ripped off. If a seller was intending to rip buyers off they wouldn’t bother getting verified would they? Therefore, theoretically there is no need to pay out any refunds.

I joined Panty Trust April 14 2006 and you did NOT have to send in fully worn panties so AQ although your critical thinking may be excellent I’m sorry but your memory clearly isn’t. So no, you would not be losing out on wearing a full-wear panty that you could otherwise sell to a buyer.

For as long as any of you continue to state inaccuracies, regarding Panty Trust, as fact, or insinuate that it is a con then I will be here to set the record straight…You may have already made up your mind but I’m fairly confident that plenty of other sellers would prefer the truth.

Anna

I think I actually got a bit mixed up here with the insurance thing but these idiots don’t read English anyway lol. The seller can opt to get insurance for a $1.25 but as we all know, good sellers don’t need it.

To simplysensual:

I have to say simplysensual that you spout complete tripe.

Is that really how you speak to buyers? I’m shocked. I’m genuinely shocked. Are buyers only valuable if they spend lots of money then? Is that how it works? They disagree with a couple of you and suddenly they get personally attacked and insulted by other sellers?

Having a go at Panty Hog too? PT and PH are run by different people. PT advertises on PH - that is all. Do Panty Hog sellers need a boost? No darling, if you carry on talking to buyers like that they’ll go straight over to Panty Hog where they are treated with hell of a lot more respect.

Oh and the seller only needs to send one pic for verification, she is of course entitled to add many more pics to her PT Member’s page, or her auction, or her site. I would have thought that that was blindingly obvious if you’d actually looked at Panty Trust’s site.

Anna

her reply:

No sweetie, I wasn’t talking to all buyers. Just the one that says he is and came on here and decided to insult Ebanned sellers.

Oh, by the way. I must have missed where you came in and said to Alt17, “is that the way you treat sellers?” Shame on you. I guess your agenda is showing.

Me:

LOL

Agenda? I’m correcting the gossip, rumour and innuendo that you are spreading about Panty Trust.

That is all.

But I can’t help but comment on the sheer nastiness you showed to a buyer just because he made a mild comment about another seller.

Shame on you.

AQ again:

You may not have had to send in worn panties, but the description would lead many a girl to send in a worn pair.

If pantytrust tells me to refund a buyer’s money, then that’s telling me how to run my business, period. If pantytrust encourages buyers to think that only pantytrust member are legit, when then, that’s trying to run my business.

I actually would NEVER join the ebanned verification service, and I’ve said so on another thread. It’s far too invasive and my future is far too promising to have any kinky scandals brewing, and my kink is completely disassociated from my “real life.”

I found this darling little quote on your site:

“If a seller you are interested in buying from is not listed, write to them, and ask them to do so. It ensures your satisfaction. If they refuse, they don’t want your business, or worse yet, they aren’t real.”

Yeah right. I’m not real, and I don’t want their business. Both charges are untrue. Classy on your part though, to resort to fear mongering. Perhaps you should consider a career in government.

I fail to see why you’re here defending the site with such zeal… if you’re really legit.

Another darling quote:

“When you purchase from a seller who is not verified by Panty Trust, there is a 50% chance that you are dealing with a fraud.”

Where did you get those statistics? Does that include ebanned girls? Fifty percent of the auctions on here are fraudulent? Please.

Another quote from your site is:

” **100% Guarantee applies to transactions with verified sellers who participate in our insurance program. Claims subject to verification. A small fee applies for insurance coverage”

So on top of your $40 seller fee, you want another $1.25 for each transaction. What happens if the item is lost? Does the seller have to send another, or does she lose the funds, or do you actually pay the buyer back his funds. if she refuses to refund his funds, does she lose membership? I’m sorry, but I don’t want my refunds extorted out of me.

Finally, for the nail in the coffin:

” Dispute resolution and Mediation Services

Most disagreements or problems can be prevented by simply reading the seller’s auction ad or listing carefully before buying. Make certain that you understand what you are buying, how much it will cost including shipping charges, the method of payment accepted by the seller, and the time line for receiving the merchandise. If you are a seller, make certain that you make your terms clear in your ad. Use of our verification page helps to make sure that these terms are clearly presented.

Mediation is simply a process where a neutral third party works to help both sides come to amicable resolution to a disagreement. Either party (buyer or seller) may request mediation services. Panty Trust offers two levels of mediation. We suggest that you try level one before moving onto level two.

Level One:

The party requesting to initiate mediation services completes our mediation request form with detailed information regarding the dispute. Panty Trust reviews this information and then contacts the other party with the details of the complaint and some suggested resolutions. The second party then contacts the party who filed the complaint directly to come to an agreement. This simple process solves most disagreements quickly and efficiently. There is no cost involved to either party.

Level Two

The party requesting to initiate mediation services completes our mediation request form with detailed information regarding the dispute. Panty Trust reviews the information, and contacts the other party with details of the complaint, and invitation to participate in mediation through the Panty Trust mediation program. If the second party indicates that they are agreeable to mediation, a Panty Trust mediation specialist will be assigned to the case. The mediation specialist will then work with both parties to work out a resolution. In level two, all responses are sent directly to the mediator who then summarizes the information to pass onto the other party. No direct contact is required between parties. The cost for level two mediation is $15.00 and is payable buy the party requesting the mediation unless during the process of mediation, the other party aggress to pay this fee as part of a resolution. The fee for level two mediation is not charged if both parties do not agree to participate in the mediation process.”

A $15 mediation fee?

I’m sorry, but this reeks of scam more every moment.

Geesh!

BTW: you have a typo in your mediation description.

Hi Aquariusvirgin

‘Select an item that you would like to send for verification. This can be a bra, panties, stockings, etc. Put the item on, hold up the sign if you are using one, and take one or more photos.’

I can not imagine that anybody would read ‘Put item on’ as an instruction to wear the item for a full 24 hours. Or do you suggest that PT should instruct them to ‘remove immediately after taking photos’ also?

FYI - PT is NOT my site. Panty Trust is based in the US, run by an American man called Bill. I am English, I am based in the UK.

If you want to query Panty Trust and their policies in any further detail then please feel free to kick an email to Bill who will be more than happy to set the record straight to stop rubbish being spread around about his site.

Now then, for the very very last time I will say it again because you have obviously missed it the last several times I have said it.

Panty Trust do not tell you how to run your business. Ergo this also means that they do not tell you to refund a buyer.

They mediate. Mediation takes place when communication breaks down between buyer and seller.

As I said before, again several times if I remember, correct me please if I am wrong. If you run your business correctly ie well, with professionalism and honesty then there is no need for the mediation. What is it about that very very simple sentence that you fail to grasp? Please tell me if I am not communicating clearly.

The darling quote you mentioned contains a very small but very vital little word.

“If a seller you are interested in buying from is not listed, write to them, and ask them to do so. It ensures your satisfaction. If they refuse, they don’t want your business, or worse yet, they aren’t real.”

I’ve emboldened it so you can see it better. It says ‘or’. Or means one or the other, as in they don’t want your business OR they aren’t real. OR is not the same as AND.

GG had made a comment about the insurance program at PT:

I looked through quite a few panty trust pages and haven’t read anything about any of them offering this insurance. Where would it show that? But anyway, I don’t understand. Are you saying that whether or not the girl wants to offer it, pantytrust does? if so, maybe change the info on the site?

I replied:

I don’t know any sellers who offer this insurance, it’s not actually needed because there are so few complaints and we deal with them in our own way anyway. I understood that a buyer was refunded.

AQ again:

…”deal with them in our own way”

Would you really want to work with a company who tells you they fix problems in their “own way,” with no transparency?

It sounds like the mob…

lol!

Exactly. So you over at pantytrust keep the $1.25 fee and I’m assuming that it’s the seller who has to refund him the money or risk losing her seal.

That’s called extortion. It may be legal in this context, but it’s certainly not ethical and it’s what I’m afraid of as a seller.

What the hell is she talking about??

For goodness sake!

I am a seller and I deal with my buyers in my own way. Panty Trust does not tell me how to do it. All PT sellers deal with their buyers in their own way. It’s when they don’t deal with it in a way that satisfies their buyers that PT may become involved - to mediate between unhappy buyer and seller.

Yes, Panty Trust keeps the insurance fee if nothing goes wrong as is the case with ALL insurance companies. No the seller doesn’t have to refund the buyer. If she pays the insurance then PT will refund the buyer - that’s how insurance works!

AQ again:

It may help some of the newbie girls who start their own private websites… but it’s not worth having for me even if I increase my sales because the whole buyer satisfaction thing is waaay too Orwellian. Like I’ve said before, if you’re not happy let me know and I’ll do everything I can, but I don’t need someone standing over me making sure that happens.

I initially saw it only as a verification service, not as a buyer guarantee– I didn’t find out abut that until a few days ago. Long-time, established sellers on here didn’t want to go into details, but they seemed to imply that there was something deeply creepy going on at pantytrust, from what little they’d tell me beyond to watch out and not waste my time.

AQ

and:

I fail to see what difference the or makes… you’re talking semantics in an attempt to defend against ridiculous statements. Your accusation, your attempt at fear mongering and your falsification of facts are vile.

Either way, you’re implying that I’m either a fraud or I don’t care about customer satisfaction, merely because I won’t sign up with your service.

Paypal/ebay has gone pretty far, as far even as federal court over monopolistic practices, but even they let that be implied– never did they explicitly state something like that. It’s just unprofessional.

I understand you are not the owner, but you are claiming to be his agent and vociferously defending pantytrust, and you are questioned only because of that. So when I say “your,” I’m referring to pantytrust and include the pronouns only because you are intent on acting as an agent of said entity.

Again, if a hypothetical buyer has issues, and I have refused his requests, perhaps because I find them unreasonable, then if you step in a force me to give him a refund— that’s interfering with my business. If you won’t force me to give him a refund, then what happens? How is that a guarantee to the buyer then? what if I have two unhappy buyers in one month, and I find their requests unreasonable and won’t refund their money. What happens then? I’ve experience online mediation, and it’s been pretty buyer-friendly, in my professional, long-term ebay seller’s opinion.

AQ

I get more sense from my wall.

PANTY TRUST DOESN’T FORCE ANYBODY INTO GIVING OUT REFUNDS

Who do you think would request mediation to go to Level 2? The buyer of course, because it would be the buyer who would be out of pocket, mediation is requested by buyers who feel as though they have been cheated, therefore the buyer would have to pay the $15.

It honestly seems to me as though you are reading what you want to read AQ.

…and then we get some banter amongst a few of them about them enjoying arguments because they are Jewish or something *rolls eyes*

Hope you followed that, you know how it is when quotes are quoted further down the thread and you’re responding to two or three other people. I’ve left out a lot of comments by others as they were either reasonable or complete guff that wasn’t important to the main theme of the thread which is a couple of members impying that PT is a scam and PT are ‘out to get them’ or something as equally as inane. Talk about insecure.

I’m sure this won’t be the last of it.

Comments?